Author Shannon Mattern joins the podcast this week to discuss her new book, Code+Clay, Data+Dirt: 5,000 Years of Urban Media. Shannon is a professor of media studies at the New School in New York City, and she tells us why she wanted to teach about the intersection of her discipline with architecture and cities.

We talk about why the perfect future interface humans are looking for does not exist, and how digital mapping can overlook important aspects of the urban spatial landscape.

Listen to the interview.